Wednesday, July 9, 2008

Discipline?? Try Charleston SC

So continuing the ideas from the RCW posting..... try THIS from Charleston SC.

How much will the public spend and in what contrived expensive ways rather than enforce the RCWs?


Anonymous said...

What's the issue? Are you advocating Community Education Partners come in and clean up Dodge City? The question there is can Seattle afford it? Why not adopt a curriculum that works for all kids. Are you saying CEP works?

You shouldn't be bussing kids out of their neighborhoods unless they are actually going to be taught something and I've only heard that intradistrict transfers work but only if the programs are proven effective first.

Before you advocate CEP look it up on the internet? Its not a panacea. They enroll kids and drop them just as quickly. Cities can't afford to have schools do these types of things - this isn't tough love, its a waste of money. Schools should be working for credit recovery programs and fast tracking kids you can't have communities of failed high school students.

These types of stories inexcusable and they don't help communities grow - "The girl is wonderful, but she missed 10 days and was tardy 13 times out of 41 days," said Ms. Redclay, who teaches English at the 2,400-student Palisades Charter High School, a math, science, and technology charter-magnet school located in Pacific Palisades, Calif. Ms. Redclay was one of 40 teachers who recorded 130 F's in their grade books last month in... "

(Philadelphia) There was sharp disagreement over the SRC’s split decision in June to renew contracts with outside education management organizations (EMOs) at 38 schools for one year, at a cost of $500 per student. The total cost is about $10 million. Critics said studies showed that despite extra funding, the EMO schools performed no better than comparable District schools.
The District invited input on plans to cut $8 million from the District’s alternative and disciplinary schools. Some advocates argued for sparing special schools serving returning dropouts and urged that the District renegotiate its large contracts with Community Education Partners and other for-profit disciplinary school managers.
Payments to departing District officials also sparked controversy. Departing CEO Paul Vallas ultimately received a final check for $180,000, including a retention bonus, salary, and vacation time, which District officials said was only what his contract required. But despite no obligation, departing SRC chair James Nevels authorized a severance package of $135,000 plus benefits for exiting Chief Financial Officer Folasade Olanipekun.

dan dempsey said...

This blog is an avenue for education and communication. I am not advocating about anything in regard to CEP.

I posted this as what is happening now.

Schools avoid the RCWs in regard to discipline.

The Seattle Schools avoid their own policies that require interventions rather than social promotions.

Let us just state what is actually happening. This first step toward a solution is recognition of the current reality.

Given the marketing spin that comes out of most school districts, we are getting further from reality rather than closer.

Look at OSPI for a great guide for advancing further into the land of illusions.

Anonymous said...

"Schools avoid RCWs in regard to discipline."

1. To make this meaningful, you'll need to understand that foremost schools follow procedures that are designed to protect the rights of individuals first, schools second.

This ensures proof of guilt by weight of evidence and following established procedures allows schools to process students more efficiently and treat everyone equally.

2. The RCW you are referring to is a teacher-directed 1-day suspension, also known as a silver bullet. The extreme case is a teacher who uses it six times on an individual which automatically disenrolls the student from their class.

It doesn't happen because it still has to be approved by an administrator (who uses the suspension as a 'cooling off' period) so there are excellent reasons for why this alone won't cause a student to be disenrolled.
Secondly, the kid usually figures it out by the third or fourth time that they are not wanted and so they make an effort to change their schedule. Some kids intentionally break rules to get out of classes they dislike. But its not the curriculum that makes them leave, its the personality of the teacher.

The administrator has to follow procedure to ensure the student's rights are upheld. So the weight of evidence is on the school to prove the student was disturbing the classroom. This is to protect not only the school and the administrator, but also the teacher.

3. Written rules are created to establish classroom norms and there is an order of increasing punishments when rules are violated. Rules and punishments tend to be consistent in all schools. I don't think anyone has invented a better system and most of us can't think of anything different.

4. There are also unwritten rules which students share between themselves and its interesting that these rules have managed to remain constant over many generations. "No squeeling on classmates" is practical, it maintains group cohesion, and it allows students opportunities to undermine teachers so they can 'waste' more time socializing with each other.

5. Rules serve more than one purpose in a classroom and there is more than one list of rules operating in a classroom.

Anyway, you might care to modify your comment. Its a leap and a stretch to say schools don't uphold laws so far as it comes to disciplining students, because they do every day and practically every minute students attend class. Also, school norms have a lot to do with treating everyone equally. So if two people interrupt you after you've given everyone multiple warnings and you punish the one who happens to push your buttons a bit too far are you being fair by using the one as a lesson for everyone else -

"Sacrificing one for the good of the cause."

That's being arbitrary and not good leadership, you are promoting the wrong ideas that the 'reform' curriculum was designed to promote.

I think WTM is on the right track, but educators have to be more consistent. Its easy to say I'm in favor of disciplining students and schools aren't (just look), but how does your idea fit in with everything else that you believe. in.

Finally, if you're going to reach all people then you have to withold judgement while you teach and lead by example. Students have to see that your methods work and no one is ever satisfied with charity, especially if you grew up poor.

People simply want to be treated the same, but have an opportunity. Giving kids all the same bad curriculum is not satisfactory, because it provides no reward unless you supplement it with something else. And moreover the grading in that classroom looks arbitrary and biased because it is.

Use great curriculum and you will have less problems with discipline.

Anonymous said...

Read "Positive Discipline" written by Jane Nelson. The information contained in the book is well worth a read.


Anonymous said...

What is there to like about Positive Discipline?

The focus should be effective curriculum. Nothing else matters until you start using a curriculum that works for children. At least provide them with textbooks that teaches standard algorthims, readable, and great problems for solving - anything less promotes racism and intolerance.

Read what kids have to say about school and you begin to understand the injustices - yet we are expected to tolerate racial bigotry.

Anonymous said...

When schools are failing about half the students, I think its a bit late to be talking about 'positive' discipline? Discipline is what schools do best and its arbitrary at best when the atmosphere is chaotic.

Which groups get targeted by teachers? Minorities and males.

What's the largest group that makes it to alternative school?

Latina - strong core values and widely-held belief that education will make you successful and independent. Schools are doing them a vast disservice by ignoring and not graduating them and you will feel this group's resentment for years to come.

Why is it that you see great hard-working kids working as food handlers in fast food joints like Arby's and yet they are constantly being disciplined and told terrible things while they go to school.

It shows this country is hypocritical - racism is an awkward truth that we all have to learn and live with.

Anonymous said...

Have you read the book? What is your solution?

Anonymous said...

I read the raising children in a self-indulgent world and I threw it away. Two elementary schools adopted her PD program and got mixed results. Their district put out a memo that said it preferred teachers didn't use it because of complaints by parents and like so many other things, positive discipline is unresearched. PD might work in Carlsbad, but not in a 'busy' classroom setting.

Just as an example of a classroom where you won't find Jane.

1. When one talks, everyone talks.
2. You're not listening, if you're not talking.
3. All talk has equal value.

There are not many teachers who can engage a class like this and it ticks off people who think they know better.

I see two problems with PD and I'm a realist, not a positivist, nominalist.

1. The model needs constant reinforcement and it is artificial. The consequences really reflect the lack of sufficient recourse by teachers and students know this.

2. Older kids do not care for positive discipline and will sabotage it.

Anonymous said...

Glad you asked, the best training I've read comes from a nurse-psychologist-teacher, who was/maybe based in Lake Oswego. My books are packed (I'm moving out of state) so I'm not going to bother finding her name. She does a better job describing what goes on in dysfunctional classrooms and how to build reward models for modifying behavior. If one wants to take this approach (it take a lot of time expenditure) than I suggest going through her training, it is far more informative than what Jane does.

I have found over time that engaging a class means one must first have effective meaningful curriculum. It is not based on NCTM bandwagon (cart with square wheels) cheap rhetoric. I have met too many math reform cheerleaders in my line of work to really ever consider giving public school or any school another chance. If I'm dealing with money, I'd rather do business with stupid people. Reminds me of the loudest buffoon at a reform meeting at a high school and I was well aware of the